Gnosis, a Roman Catholic Womanpriest, and Inner Awakening

Interview Transcript

Shirley Paulson

We are in for a treat and a surprise today with our guest on the Bible and Beyond podcast. I want to introduce Reverend Dr. Bridget Mary Meehan, who is a bishop in the Association of Roman Catholic Women Priests. First, I’m going to ask her to explain what a Roman Catholic woman priest is. And then the main reason for our getting together is [to learn about] an article that she wrote titled, “The Gift of Gnosticism: Inner Awakening in the Catholic Mystical Tradition.” That sounds like an interesting topic to me.

Reverend Dr. Meehan also describes herself as a prophetic leader in the global movement for women’s equality in the church. She’s a certified minister in the Federation of Christian Ministries, one of the co-founders of People’s Catholic Seminary, and Dean of the Masters-in-Divinity and Doctor-of-Divinity programs at Global Ministries University.

So, perhaps I should not have been so surprised when Bridget Mary’s article came out, because I know her as a very thoughtful and courageous woman priest. She’s already bucked the restrictions for women in the church, and now she’s taking on the church’s attitude towards what Catholics should read and study.

All this while she remains deeply committed to her Catholic life and heritage. What a treat to have you with us today!

Thanks so much for being with us.

Bridget Mary Meehan

Thank you so much, Shirley. I’ll begin with sharing what a Roman Catholic woman priest is:  a woman who has been ordained in the Roman Catholic apostolic tradition and lives her vocation as a Catholic priest celebrating Eucharist, preaching the gospel, and serving inclusive communities. Women priests are part of a global renewal movement, consisting of several organizations located in Europe, North America, South America, Africa, and Asia. There are approximately 300 members worldwide. I’m one of the bishops in the Association of Roman Catholic Women Priests. Our vision is rooted in the belief that all the baptized are equal and that the Holy Spirit continues to call women, men, and people of all genders to ordained ministry today, in a renewed Roman Catholic women priestly ministry in a non-hierarchical model of church that is open, welcoming, and rooted in Jesus’ example of inclusivity and gospel hospitality. Our ordinations are not recognized by the Vatican, no surprise there because we’re automatically excommunicated,

Shirley

Right.

Bridget Mary

Women priests understand themselves as faithful Catholics, serving at open tables, practicing non-clerical leadership, and helping the church become more inclusive, compassionate, and just. All are welcome to receive sacraments, including the Eucharist, at our open table.

Shirley

That’s rather surprising and sounds wonderful. How long have they been around, women priests?

Bridget Mary Meehan

We started in 2002 on the Danube with seven women being ordained, and the Vatican soon afterwards wrote a decree officially excommunicating them. Later, a bishop in the Roman Catholic tradition ordained two of these women as bishops. The apostolic tradition, what Catholics call apostolic succession, comes from these two bishops who continue to ordain women. The movement in 2006 moved to the United States, and I was one of the first 12 women ordained in the United States. There were eight of us priests and four deacons.

Shirley

I’m in awe of what you’re doing. That’s quite interesting. We’re going to move into your article, too, which is really fascinating to me. The title is, “The Gift of Gnosticism, Inner Awakening in the Catholic Mystical Tradition.” I think there are two basic questions. One is, what do you see as valuable in these so-called Gnostic writings. And then secondly, how do you justify reading them as a faithful Catholic?

Bridget Mary

When I use the word “gnostic” or “gnosis” I’m not referring to a rejected heretical system as that term is so often misunderstood. I’m speaking about gnosis in its original sense from the Greek, meaning knowledge. In early Christianity, this referred to experiential, contemplative knowing of God — an  inner awakening to the divine presence already dwelling within us. So gnosis is not secret knowledge for spiritual [lead] It’s the deep, relational knowing that comes through prayer, silence, love, suffering, and transformation. It’s the kind of knowing Jesus himself points to when he says the reign of God is within you.

This inner awakening has always been part of the Catholic mystical tradition — from the Desert Mothers and Fathers, to Hildegard of Bingham, Julian of Norwich, Meister Eckhart, Teresa of Avila, and Thomas Merton. Catholic scholars of mysticism have shown that this experiential knowledge has never been opposed to the faith, doctrine, or sacramental life. It animates them.

What especially appeals to me is that gnosis honors the authority of lived experience as a source of revelation. For women whose spiritual authority has so often been dismissed or controlled, that is profoundly liberating. It affirms that the Spirit speaks directly in women’s bodies, consciousness, and callings — and not only through hierarchical authority or permission. As a woman, priest, and bishop, and as part of a worldwide renewal movement, I see this inner knowing at work every day. Women priests do not arrive at our vocation through rebellion, but through prayerful, spirit-led awakening.

We recognize deeply and unmistakably that God is calling us to a sacramental ministry, and we trust that call even when the institution refuses to acknowledge it. What matters to me is this: embracing gnosis does not lead us away from Catholicism, but rather deeper into its meaning. It invites a church rooted not in fear or control, but in trust that the Spirit is alive in all the baptized. It calls us back to the heart of the gospel, where Jesus consistently affirmed inner authority, spiritual freedom, and direct relationship with God.

So yes, I remain Catholic, and precisely because of that love, I am committed to reclaiming this forgotten gift, the gift of inner awakening, contemplative knowing, for the healing and renewal of our church today.

Shirley

What I enjoy about you so much is that you are so committed to a life of deep thought and prayer, and yet you’re so willing to push the boundaries away from you and make room for the Spirit  — to just welcome it into your life. That’s awesome.

Maybe you could give us some examples of ancient texts that are meaningful to you. What speaks to you?

Bridget Mary

I would love to. And thank you for the beautiful courses you have taught for our seminary, Shirley. They mean so much. Among the ancient texts, the one that speaks most powerfully to me is the Gospel of Mary. No surprise. It’s not simply meaningful on an academic level. It is spiritually and prophetically alive for our moment. In the Gospel of Mary, Mary Magdalene is portrayed not as a marginal figure, not as a penitent sinner, but as a trusted apostle, spiritual teacher, and leader. She receives insight directly from Jesus. She comforts the disciples after his death. She teaches them when they are afraid. And most strikingly, she’s challenged not because her teaching lacks depth, but because she is a woman. Peter questions her authority. Levi defends her, saying, in essence, if Jesus trusted her, who are we to reject her? This dynamic is painfully familiar to women priests today.  For the women priests movement, the gospel of Mary functions as a mirror and a memory. It reflects as a mirror and a memory. It reflects what we are living now.

What’s happening is that women are receiving and proclaiming gospel truth through prayer, study, and live discipleship. And then we’re told that our authority is not acceptable simply because of our gender. Mary’s leadership was contested not on theological grounds, but on patriarchal ones. The same is true today.

This text also restores something essential that the institutional church has lost sight of:  apostolic authority is grounded in spiritual wisdom, not hierarchical power. Mary leads because she knows Christ — not abstractly, but intimately. Her authority flows from relationship, experience, and fidelity to the gospel.

That is precisely how women priests understand priesthood; not as domination, but as relational, sacramental service rooted in baptismal equality in the community. So for us, Mary Magdalene is not a symbolic figure. She was our ancestor in ministry. When women priests stand at the altar, preach the gospel, or accompany communities in healing and justice work, we are standing in the same lineage of discipleship that the Gospel of Mary preserves. This wonderful ancient text does not invent something new. It remembers what was deliberately silenced, and in remembering it, it strengthens our conviction that women’s sacramental leadership is not a modern invention, but a faithful continuation of the earliest Jesus movement. So in reclaiming Mary as apostle and leader, the Gospel of Mary gives the church back a missing voice, and it gives women priests the courage to trust what we have always known, always known in our bones, that the risen Christ still sends women to go and tell.

Shirley

I love your sense of memory — bringing us back to this ancient world that’s alive now. It’s just beautiful. I have to ask, you were mentioning other Catholic mystics along the way. Are there other examples of Catholic mystics who are drawn to these ideas? I’m curious about how Catholic mysticism works.

Bridget Mary

I think that Catholic mystics who emphasize interior knowing belong to the same category as Mary Magdalene and these early followers of Jesus. They stand at the very heart of the gospel.

And what we often call gnosis — interior, experiential knowing of God — has simply been renamed in Catholic language as contemplation, infused wisdom, or mystical union. So when you read the great Catholic mystics, you see this again and again. Meister Eckhart speaks of God being born in the soul. Teresa of Avila maps the inner journey towards union with God in her interior castle. John of the Cross describes a knowing that emerges precisely when images and concepts fall away in the dark night of the soul. Hildegard of Bingham receives theology as a vision of the living light.

Bridget Mary

Theology flows directly from revelation, not from abstract doctrine. In her visions, Julian of Norwich recounts in 1373 that God showed her that a small, round, fragile hazelnut resting in her hand exists and is sustained by God’s love. And so it is with all of creation.

All of this is, again, not secret knowledge. It’s knowledge that comes from love, silence, faith, and transformative awareness of God’s indwelling presence.

Historically, the institutional church has been wary of the word gnosis —because interior authority can’t be easily controlled — and often avoids this language; but they still honor the experience. So what has happened? Many mystics were questioned, silenced, and even condemned in their own lifetimes but later canonized once their insights could be safely contained.

For example, Joan of Arc was burned at the stake. Theresa was subject to harassment by the Inquisition. And John of the Cross was tortured. So what you’re seeing is the church’s historical ambivalence towards direct experience of God, especially when that experience disrupted established authority, theology, or gender norms.

So really, mystics live like us at the edge of institutional comfort. They claim immediate encounter with the Holy that’s not mediated solely through hierarchy, doctrine, or church office. They claim the source of their power is directly in the experience of the Holy One. And that’s why they’re often feared by the Kyriakon church.

For me, and for the women priest movement, this matters deeply. Gnosis affirms that God speaks directly within the human heart. It validates what vocation is discerned and how it’s discerned through prayer, experience, and community, rather than solely through hierarchical authority. It restores the early Christian conviction that the Spirit is poured out on all the baptized without distinction.

But the good news is, things are changing slowly. The recent Senate on synodality explicitly lifted up shared living experience of God as a privileged place of discernment. The Senate repeatedly said that it was important to affirm inner knowing rooted in prayerful experience as valid and should be shared in their methodology — actually for sharing conversations of the Spirit. Participants are asked to speak from their own prayer and lived experience how they have encountered God, the Spirit’s movements, consolations, struggles, or calls for their life in ministry

So I don’t see gnosis as something outside Catholicism at this point at all. I see it as a buried treasure within our tradition. One that is reemerging now because the people of God are being invited once again in the institutional church to trust the Spirit speaking from within and to share with one another conversations in the Spirit.

So then on your second question, how do I as a Catholic explain why this is okay? Well, that’s part of the answer. The Church is already saying it officially by this conversation in the Spirit.

Shirley

What about the Pontifical Biblical Commission? Is that something different?

Bridget Mary

It is part of the scholarship of the church, the Vatican’s own scholarship. And again, they’ve done a lot of work on scholarly knowledge and using the tools, scripture tools to analyze the human and the historical context. Finally, these scholars are really saying the Bible did not fall from the sky.

They recognize Catholic scholarship that emerges from living communities of faith responding to God’s presence in their lives. That’s what I think is the big leap of faith and Catholicism on scholarship. They’ve been excellent. The Pontifical Biblical Commission affirms the use of historical critical scholarship and recognizes that early Christianity was diverse, not monolithic.

That means we cannot pretend there was only one way that the first followers of Jesus understood discipleship, authority, or spiritual awakening. So that opens the door for all these extracanonical texts being studied and affirmed. Women priests continue, and sometimes in this tradition of opening up the scholarship. We are now using extracanonical texts, not only to study and to offer courses on them, but we are using them in our liturgies, in our worship, because they help us understand how these diverse early communities fully lived, what teachings of Jesus they valued, and how their relationships with one another unfolded. So it’s a whole new day of exploration, contemplation, Bible study, and sharing in Catholicism. And I think the mystical tradition has helped. Catholic biblical scholarship has helped. And I think the women priests movement is just celebrating it, not only in our studies and in our formation, but in our liturgical life and worship. So it’s coming full circle in a way that we never anticipated, but we are really, really enriched by it.

Shirley

How would you characterize your relationship to the biblical canon? What does that mean to you?

Bridget Mary

I would say my relationship to the biblical canon is one of deep reference and mature freedom. As a Catholic, I received the biblical canon as part of the church’s foundational witness to God’s self-revelation in Jesus. It’s central to our sacrament life, our preaching, and our prayer. The canon matters. It shapes us, grounds us, and continually calls us back to Jesus in the gospel.

At the same time, I understand the canon historically. It emerged through discernment within the early Christian story and communities over time. The formation of the biblical canon privileged certain voices while marginalizing others. The recovery of extracanonical texts, such as the Gospel of Mary, the Gospels of Philip and Thomas, brings forward the silenced perspectives, especially emphasizing the amazing wisdom, inner knowing, and for me, so important as I said before, women’s leadership in early Christianity. These newly discovered texts in the last century and a century before that help us to dive deeply into the richness and diversity of faith in the first generations of Jesus followers. Knowing that doesn’t weaken my faith in scripture, I believe it deepens it.

It reminds me that the Spirit was at work in real communities, responding to real questions, struggles, and experiences of God that these people had. So I don’t treat the canon as a closed system that silences all other voices. I see it as a living center.

Extracanonical texts don’t compete with scripture, but they help illuminate the world in which the canons took shape, and they recover voices. They are necessary, especially to recover women’s voices that were later marginalized. In that sense, I think we can say I live within the canon, and we all do. I’m not imprisoned by it. I let it speak, challenge, and transform me, while trusting the Spirit is inspiring Christians and scripture. In contemporary life it is still speaking. Speaking through prayer, conscience, and the lived experience of people through creation and in a multitude of other ways. And I believe this is truly Catholic. It’s fully alive and open and grounded.

Shirley

Wow, I love your living center. That’s a wonderful way to think about this. I learned that the Second Vatican Council was a real opening to ecumenical thinking. Is there anything in that council that encourages you to look at these once forbidden writings?

Bridget Mary

I think the Second Vatican Council gave Catholics permission and opened the window, let in fresh air and really, really encouraged us to approach scripture and the early Christian writings with greater historical accuracy and spiritual maturity — to really honor scholarship. Vatican II taught that revelation unfolds through history, and the scripture must be interpreted in light of its historical context.

Literary forms are important. As I said, the lived experience of early Christian communities is key to understanding. So that shift of Vatican II opened the door to serious engagement with early texts that were once dismissed or feared. So when I read writings like the Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of Philip, Gospel of Mary, and other extracanonical texts, I’m not treating them as scripture trying to replace the biblical canon; but they are very, very important for depth of insight into the early followers of Jesus. I’m doing exactly what Vatican II encourages, studying the broader world of early Christianity to better understand the faith — how faith evolved, how discipleship grew and matured, and the deeper spiritual awakening that was lived by all of those early followers.

Vatican II really affirms that the Spirit continues to guide the Church into deeper truths over time. That means we don’t need to be afraid of scholarship, discovery, or previously marginalized voices. We can trust that truth deepens rather than collapses under honest inquiry. So, for me, these extracanonical texts don’t threaten Catholic faith. They enrich it. As I said before many times, it’s been a boon to women priests. They remind us that early Christianity was vibrant, diverse, deeply contemplative, and that interior transformation was central to following Jesus from the very beginning.

Shirley

I think you’ve already answered this, but I just want to make sure that we’ve covered this. How do you see these little-known writings in conjunction with your current ministry, your own ministry?

Bridget Mary

When you look at texts in the canonical scriptures, for example, like the letters of Timothy, or others that prohibit women from leadership roles, I think that you really have to look at them in their context and interpret them over the development that took place over time, that they were part of a patriarchal bias that evolved in the earliest followers of Jesus as well. So I think that I have to explore that and then interpret them in that context. To me, the bottom line is, does this reading in Timothy, or elsewhere, reflect the liberating message of the life and example of Jesus in the gospels, both in the canon and the extracanonical texts? To me, that’s the bottom line. The word is a living word and it must be liberating, healing, and transformative to really help us grow now. It’s a living word for today, not just for the early followers of Jesus. So I think it’s all about prayer, reflection, study, and then applying it to what is meaningful. That is the call today to be a disciple of Jesus, to live justice, to love tenderly, and to walk humbly with our God, which is at the heart, I think, of what we’re called to do.

Shirley

That’s just wonderful. To wrap things up here, I was wondering if you might say what you would most like for Catholics to take away from this conversation?

Bridget Mary

I think that we need more study, more reflection. We need to engage these scripture texts that are not well known today. For women priests, it’s our role to reappropriate and offer that scholarship to people, offer the courses that progressive theology and People’s Catholic Seminary are offering today so that we have a very rich smorgasbord of great resources to choose from for growth in the faith, for a deeper understanding, for integration into lives of holiness, and witnessing the gospel in our world today, meeting those challenges. So I think we need more study, more reflection, more sharing, and more diversity. And to really listen deeply to one another. Contemplation takes you into the depths of the Spirit, and to realize there what speaks to you. What is Love calling you to do? Which is the voice of God in our time? And to me that is where it begins, where it ends, and where I’m constantly being challenged.

Shirley

I have so loved working with your People’s Catholic Seminary. I’ve had the privilege of teaching some classes with your group, and I have to say, I just enjoy the willingness, the openness, the deep spirituality of your women priests. It’s a real privilege to be with those who are really studying and thinking. What a joy.

Bridget Mary

We are so grateful for you, Shirley, and for the gift of your scholarship, and for all your companionship on the journey with the rich variety of courses you have brought to us. It has enriched our whole movement because it’s part of our study and preparation for ordination to take these courses, both in the canonical and extracanonical scriptures. And I love a New, New Testament, which puts them all together. This is one of our courses. I think it is so important today to look at the fullness of what we have and keep ourselves open to a living word that’s always speaking and leading us and guiding us.

Shirley

I am glad that you wrote that article so that we could talk about this so directly and plainly. It’s just really, really helpful. I’m thrilled with your explanation for why Roman Catholic women priests are so engaged in this and why they’re bringing such leadership to deep thoughts. So my goodness, thank you for being with us today. Thank you.

Bridget Mary

Thank you, Shirley. I am so grateful.